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48 Elizabeth II, A.D. 1999, Canada

Journals of the Senate

Issue 158

Tuesday, September 14, 1999
9:00 a.m.

The Honourable Gildas L. Molgat, Speaker

The Members convened were:

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, Austin, Beaudoin, Berntson, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, Doody, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Graham, Grimard, Hervieux-Payette, Joyal, Kelly, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, Kolber, Kroft, LeBreton, Lewis, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Pearson, Pépin, Perrault, Perry (Poirier), Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Robertson, Robichaud , (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud , (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Roche, Rompkey, Rossiter, Ruck, Sibbeston, Simard, Sparrow, Stewart, Stollery, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, Wilson

The Members in attendance to business were:

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Andreychuk, Atkins, Austin, Beaudoin, Berntson, Bryden, Buchanan, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cochrane, Comeau, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, Doody, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Forrestall, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Graham, Grimard, Hervieux-Payette, Joyal, Kelly, Kenny, Keon, Kinsella, *Kirby, Kolber, Kroft, LeBreton, Lewis, Losier-Cool, Lynch-Staunton, Maheu, Mahovlich, Meighen, Mercier, Milne, Molgat, Moore, Murray, Nolin, Pearson, Pépin, Perrault, Perry (Poirier), Poulin (Charette), Poy, Prud'homme, Robertson, Robichaud , (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud , (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Roche, Rompkey, Rossiter, Ruck, Sibbeston, Simard, Sparrow, Stewart, Stollery, Taylor, Tkachuk, Watt, Wilson

PRAYERS

SENATORS' STATEMENTS

Some Honourable Senators made statements. Pursuant to Rule 43(7), the Honourable Senator Andreychuk gave notice that she would raise a question of privilege concerning the unauthorized release of working drafts of a report of the Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples.

DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS

Tabling of Documents

The Honourable Senator Graham, P.C., tabled the following:

Order Authorizing Certain Major Air Carriers and Persons to Negotiate and Enter Into Any Conditional Agreement pursuant to section 47(5) of the Canada Transportation Act.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1278S.

ANSWERS TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS

Pursuant to Rule 25(2), the Honourable Senator Carstairs tabled the following:

Reply to Question No 135, dated November 17, 1998, appearing on the Order Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator LeBreton, respecting BMCI Consulting Inc.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1279S.

Reply to Question No 143, dated March 2, 1999, appearing on the Order Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator Kenny, respecting tobacco smuggling in Canada.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1280S.

Reply to Question No 145, dated April 20, 1999, appearing on the Order Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator Spivak, respecting Agriculture and Agri-Food Canada.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1281S.

Reply to Question No 146, dated April 20, 1999, appearing on the Order Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator Spivak, respecting Environment Canada.-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1282S.

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Motions

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Robichaud, P.C. (L'Acadie-Acadia):

That, pursuant to Rule 39, not more than a further six hours of debate be allocated to dispose of third reading of Bill C-78, An Act to establish the Public Sector Pension Investment Board, to amend the Public Service Superannuation Act, the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Superannuation Act, the Defence Services Pension Continuation Act, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Pension Continuation Act, the Members of Parliament Retiring Allowances Act and the Canada Post Corporation Act and to make a consequential amendment to another Act;

That when debate comes to an end or when the time provided for the debate has expired, the Speaker shall interrupt, if required, any proceedings then before the Senate and put forthwith and successively every question necessary to dispose of the third reading of the said Bill; and

That any recorded vote or votes on the said question be taken in accordance with the provisions of Rule 39(4).

After debate, The question being put on the motion, it was adopted on division.

Bills

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Kirby, seconded by the Honourable Senator Sibbeston, for the third reading of Bill C-78, An Act to establish the Public Sector Pension Investment Board, to amend the Public Service Superannuation Act, the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Superannuation Act, the Defence Services Pension Continuation Act, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Pension Continuation Act, the Members of Parliament Retiring Allowances Act and the Canada Post Corporation Act and to make a consequential amendment to another Act.

After debate, With leave of the Senate and notwithstanding Rule 39(7), In amendment, the Honourable Senator Andreychuk moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator LeBreton, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended

(a) on page 28, by adding after line 7 the following:

"THREE-YEAR PARLIAMENTARY REVIEW

53. (1) The administration of this Act shall be reviewed on a permanent basis by such committee of the Senate, of the House of Commons or of both Houses of Parliament as may be designated or established for that purpose.

(2) The committee designated or established for the purpose of subsection (1) shall, not later than three years after the coming into force of this Act and every three years thereafter, undertake a comprehensive review of the provisions and operation of this Act and shall, within a year after the review is undertaken or within such further time as the House of Commons may authorize, submit a report to Parliament thereon including a statement of any changes the committee would recommend."; and

(b) by renumbering clauses 53 to 231 and any cross-references thereto accordingly.

With leave of the Senate, In amendment, the Honourable Senator Andreychuk moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator LeBreton, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended

(a) on page 28, by adding after line 7 the following:

"THREE-YEAR REVIEW

53. Three years after this Act comes into force, the Minister shall cause an independent review of the Act and its administration and operation to be conducted, and shall cause a report on the review to be laid before each House of Parliament on any of the first fifteen days on which that House is sitting after the review is completed."; and

(b) by renumbering clauses 53 to 231 and any cross-references thereto accordingly.

After debate, With leave of the Senate, In amendment, the Honourable Senator LeBreton moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Nolin, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended

(a) on page 15, by adding after line 9 the following:

"27.1 The Auditor General of Canada shall be the primary auditor of the Public Sector Pension Investment Board.";

(b) in clause 28, on page 15, by replacing line 10 the following:

"28. The audit committee shall be responsible for presenting all records of all financial activity of the Public Sector Pension Investment Board to the Auditor General on an annual basis. In addition, the audit committee shall"; and

(c) in clause 36, on page 19, by replacing line 2 the following:

"auditor's report to be prepared and presented to the Auditor General of Canada, in respect of".

After debate, The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Andreychuk , Atkins, Beaudoin, Berntson, Buchanan, Cochrane, Comeau, Doody, Grimard, Kelly, Keon, Kinsella, LeBreton, Lynch-Staunton, Meighen, Murray, Nolin, Prud'homme, Robertson, Roche, Rossiter, Simard, Tkachuk, Wilson-24

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Austin, Bryden, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Graham, Hervieux-Payette, Joyal, Kenny, Kolber, Kroft, Lewis, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Mahovlich, Mercier, Milne, Moore, Pearson, Pépin, Perrault, Perry (Poirier), Poulin, Poy, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Rompkey, Ruck, Sibbeston, Sparrow, Stewart, Taylor, Watt-47

ABSTENTIONS

The Honourable Senators

Nil

The question was put on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Andreychuk, seconded by the Honourable Senator LeBreton, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended

(a) on page 28, by adding after line 7 the following:

"THREE-YEAR REVIEW

(b) by renumbering clauses 53 to 231 and any cross-references thereto accordingly.

The motion in amendment was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Andreychuk, Atkins, Beaudoin, Berntson, Buchanan, Cochrane, Comeau, Doody, Grimard, Kelly, Keon, Kinsella, LeBreton, Lynch-Staunton, Meighen, Murray, Nolin, Prud'homme, Robertson, Roche, Rossiter, Simard, Tkachuk, Wilson-24

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Austin, Bryden, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Graham, Hervieux-Payette, Joyal, Kenny , Kolber, Kroft, Lewis, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Mahovlich, Mercier, Milne, Moore, Pearson, Pépin, Perrault, Perry (Poirier), Poulin, Poy, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Rompkey, Ruck, Sibbeston, Sparrow, Stewart, Taylor, Watt-48,

ABSTENTIONS

The Honourable Senators

Nil

The question was put on the motion in amendment of the Honourable Senator Andreychuk, seconded by the Honourable Senator LeBreton, that the Bill be not now read a third time but that it be amended:

(a) on page 28, by adding after line 7 the following:

"THREE-YEAR PARLIAMENTARY REVIEW

(b) by renumbering clauses 53 to 231 and any cross-references thereto accordingly.

The motion in amendment was negatived on the following division:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Andreychuk, Atkins, Beaudoin, Berntson, Buchanan, Cochrane, Comeau, Doody, Grimard, Kelly, Keon, Kinsella, LeBreton, Lynch-Staunton, Meighen, Murray, Nolin, Prud'homme, Robertson, Roche, Rossiter, Simard, Tkachuk, Wilson-24

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

ABSTENTIONS

The Honourable Senators

Nil

The question then being put on the motion of the Honourable Senator Kirby, seconded by the Honourable Senator Sibbeston, for the third reading of Bill C-78, An Act to establish the Public Sector Pension Investment Board, to amend the Public Service Superannuation Act, the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Superannuation Act, the Defence Services Pension Continuation Act, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Pension Continuation Act, the Members of Parliament Retiring Allowances Act and the Canada Post Corporation Act and to make a consequential amendment to another Act, it was adopted on the following division:

YEAS

The Honourable Senators

Adams, Austin, Bryden, Callbeck, Carstairs, Chalifoux, Christensen, Cook, Cools, Corbin, De Bané, Fairbairn, Ferretti Barth, Finestone, Finnerty, Fitzpatrick, Fraser, Furey, Gauthier, Gill, Graham, Hervieux-Payette, Joyal, Kenny , Kolber, Kroft, Lewis, Losier-Cool, Maheu, Mahovlich, Mercier, Milne, Moore, Pearson, Pépin, Perrault, Perry (Poirier), Poulin, Robichaud, (L'Acadie-Acadia), Robichaud, (Saint-Louis-de-Kent), Rompkey, Ruck, Sibbeston, Sparrow, Stewart, Taylor, Watt-47

NAYS

The Honourable Senators

Andreychuk, Atkins, Beaudoin, Berntson, Buchanan, Cochrane, Comeau, Doody, Grimard, Kelly, Kinsella, LeBreton, Lynch-Staunton, Meighen, Murray, Nolin, Prud'homme, Robertson, Roche, Rossiter, Simard, Tkachuk, Wilson-23

ABSTENTIONS

The Honourable Senators

Nil

Accordingly, the Bill was read the third time and passed.

Ordered, That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate have passed this Bill, without amendment.

________________________________________

The Honourable the Speaker informed the Senate that a communication had been received from the Secretary to the Governor General.

The Communication was then read by the Honourable the Speaker as follows:

RIDEAU HALL

September 14, 1999

Mr. Speaker:

I have the honour to inform you that the Honourable John Major, Puisne Judge of the Supreme Court of Canada, in his capacity as Deputy Governor General, will proceed to the Senate Chamber today, the 14th day of September, 1999, at 2:00 p.m. for the purpose of giving Royal Assent to certain Bills.

Yours sincerely,

Judith A. LaRocque

Secretary to the Governor General

The Honourable The Speaker of the Senate Ottawa

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Motions

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Furey:

That, pursuant to subsection 47(5) of the Canada Transportation Act, the order authorizing certain major air carriers and persons to negotiate and enter into any conditional agreement, be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications.

After debate, In amendment, the Honourable Senator Kinsella moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Simard, that in the event of a prorogation of Parliament, the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration be ordered to establish a Task Force on Transport and Communications, consisting of the members of the present Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications and that this Order Authorizing Certain Major Air Carriers and Persons to Negotiate and Enter into Any Conditional Agreement be referred to the Task Force for study and report;

That the Task Force be authorized to establish television and radio broadcasting of its proceedings as it deems appropriate;

That the Task Force be authorized to adjourn from place to place in Canada; and

That the Standing Committee on Internal Economy, Budgets and Administration be ordered to provide the Task Force an appropriate budget to allow it to carry out its work.

After debate, The question being put on the motion in amendment, it was negatived on division.

The question then being put on the main motion, it was adopted.

OTHER BUSINESS

Senate Public Bills

Orders No. 1 to 4 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Commons Public Bills

Second reading of Bill C-251, An Act to amend the Criminal Code and the Corrections and Conditional Release Act (cumulative sentences).

The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Watt, that the Bill be read the second time.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Cools moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Bryden, that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Private Bills

Third reading of Bill S-30, An Act to amend the Act of incorporation of the Board of Elders of the Canadian District of the Moravian Church in America.

The Honourable Senator Taylor moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Maheu, that the Bill be read the third time.

After debate, The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

The Bill was then read the third time and passed.

Ordered, That a Message be sent to the House of Commons to acquaint that House that the Senate have passed this Bill to which they desire their concurrence.

Reports of Committees

Orders No. 1 to 6 were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Consideration of the Tenth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry entitled: "Competing Realities: The Boreal Forest at Risk", deposited with the Clerk of the Senate on June 28, 1999.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Taylor moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Finnerty, that the Report be adopted.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Other

Orders No. 81, 86, 46 (inquiries), 1 (motion) and 74 (inquiry) were called and postponed until the next sitting.

Resuming debate on the inquiry of the Honourable Senator Simard calling the attention of the Senate to the current situation with regard to the application of the Official Languages Act, its progressive deterioration, the abdication of responsibility by a succession of governments over the past ten years and the loss of access to services in French for francophones outside Quebec.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Finestone moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Gauthier, that further debate on the inquiry be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Orders No. 76, 78, 73 (inquiries), 118 (motion), 63, 47 (inquiries), 145 (motion) 65, 79, 82 (inquiries), 143, 127 (motions), 49 (inquiry), 114 (motion), 68, 50 and 64 (inquiries) were called and postponed until the next sitting.

QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE

Pursuant to Rule 43(8), the Senate proceeded to the consideration of the question of privilege of the Honourable Senator Andreychuk concerning the unauthorized release of working drafts of a report of the Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples.

Debate.

With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Andreychuk tabled the following:

Article published in the National Post on September 11, 1999, concerning working drafts of a report of the Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples. (English text)-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1283S.

With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Cools tabled the following:

Article published in The London Free Press on November 28, 1998, concerning the draft report of the Special Joint Committee on Child Custody and Access. (English text)-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1284S.

With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Austin, P.C., tabled the following:

SPEAKER'S RULING

I would refer honourable senators to Beauchesne's 6th edition, page 241, citation 877, which states:

No act done at any committee shall be divulged before it has been reported to the House.

Further in the same citation, it states:

The publication of proceedings of committees conducted with closed doors or of reports of committees before they are available to Members will, however, constitute a breach of privilege.

Then, of course, we have our own rules, which are equally clear in that regard. Rule 43(1) states as follows:

The preservation of the privileges of the Senate is the duty of every Senator. A violation of the privileges of any one Senator affects those of all Senators...

Our rules then set out the conditions that the Speaker must consider in deciding whether or not there is a prima facie case. These are founded in rule 43(1), which states the matter must:

(a) be raised at the earliest opportunity.

That has been done.

(b) be a matter directly concerning the privileges of the Senate...

That has been established.

(c) be raised to seek a genuine remedy...for which no other parliamentary process is reasonably available.

That will be accomplished with the motion that Senator Andreychuk has indicated she is prepared to make.

(d) be raised to correct a grave and serious breach.

The comments that I have heard have convinced me that that is the case.

The four conditions having therefore been met, I rule that there is a prima facie case. Senator Andreychuk may proceed with her motion.

The Honourable Senator Andreychuk moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Prud'homme, P.C.:

That the question of privilege concerning the unauthorized release of working drafts of a report of the Standing Senate Committee on Aboriginal Peoples be referred to the Standing Committee on Privileges, Standing Rules and Orders.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

Pursuant to Rule 135(8), the proceedings were interrupted to resume after Royal Assent.

ROYAL ASSENT

The Senate adjourned during pleasure to await the arrival of the Honourable the Deputy of His Excellency the Governor General.

After awhile, the Honourable John Charles Major, Puisne Judge of the Supreme Court of Canada, in his capacity as Deputy of His Excellency the Governor General, having come and being seated at the foot of the Throne-

The Honourable the Speaker commanded the Usher of the Black Rod to proceed to the House of Commons and acquaint that House that:-

"It is the desire of the Honourable the Deputy of His Excellency the Governor General that they attend him immediately in the Senate Chamber."

The House of Commons being come,

One of the Clerks at the table then read the titles of the Bills to be assented to as follows:

An Act respecting pollution prevention and the protection of the environment and human health in order to contribute to sustainable development (Bill C-32, Chapter 33, 1999)

An Act to establish the Public Sector Pension Investment Board, to amend the Public Service Superannuation Act, the Canadian Forces Superannuation Act, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Superannuation Act, the Defence Services Pension Continuation Act, the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Pension Continuation Act, the Members of Parliament Retiring Allowances Act and the Canada Post Corporation Act and to make a consequential amendment to another Act (Bill C-78, Chapter 34, 1999).

To these Bills the Royal Assent was pronounced by the Clerk of the Senate in the following words:-

"In Her Majesty's name, the Honourable the Deputy of His Excellency the Governor General doth assent to these Bills."

2:15 p.m.

The Commons withdrew.

After which the Honourable the Deputy of His Excellency the Governor General was pleased to retire.

MOTIONS

The Honourable Senator Roche moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Wilson:

That the Senate recommends that the Government of Canada urge the nuclear weapons states plus India, Pakistan and Israel to take all of their nuclear forces off alert status as soon as possible.

After debate, The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Perrault, P.C., that further debate on the motion be adjourned until the next sitting.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

________________________________________

With leave, The Senate reverted to Government Notices of Motions.

With leave of the Senate, The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Perrault, P.C.:

That when the Senate adjourns today, it do stand adjourned until, Tuesday, September 21, 1999, at 2:00 p.m.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):

Twenty-ninth Report of the Standing Senate Committee on Banking, Trade and Commerce entitled: "A Study of Common Currency Canada: and the United States-Views and Evidence Heard."-Sessional Paper No. 1/36-1277S.

ADJOURNMENT

The Honourable Senator Carstairs moved, seconded by the Honourable Senator Perry (Poirier):

That the Senate do now adjourn.

The question being put on the motion, it was adopted.

________________________________________

Changes in Membership of Committees Pursuant to Rule 85(4)

Standing Senate Committee on Transport and Communications

The name of the Honourable Senator Robichaud (Saint-Louis-de-Kent) substituted for that of the Honourable Senator Fitzpatrick (September 13).

________________________________________

The 1st Session of the 36th Parliament was prorogued by Proclamation on Saturday, September 18, 1999.

(See Proclamations)

Journals of the Senate

48 Elizabeth II, A.D. 1999, Canada

Journals of the Senate

Issue 158

Tuesday, September 14, 19999:00 a.m.

The Honourable Gildas L. Molgat, Speaker

SENATORS' STATEMENTS

DAILY ROUTINE OF BUSINESS

Tabling of Documents

ANSWERS TO WRITTEN QUESTIONS

ORDERS OF THE DAY

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Motions

Bills

GOVERNMENT BUSINESS

Motions

OTHER BUSINESS

Senate Public Bills

Commons Public Bills

Private Bills

Reports of Committees

Other

QUESTION OF PRIVILEGE

ROYAL ASSENT

MOTIONS

REPORTS DEPOSITED WITH THE CLERK OF THE SENATE PURSUANT TO RULE 28(2):

ADJOURNMENT

Tuesday, September 14, 1999
9:00 a.m.